Interview by Paul White-Davis
This Black History Month, DC will release an anthology-style one-shot called, “DC Power: A
Celebration” #1, featuring work by some of the top creatives at the company – including recent graduates of the inaugural class of DC’s Milestone Initiative. Cyborg, John Stewart, Aqualad, Kid Flash, Batwing, Vixen, Amazing-Man, and more take center stage to highlight the power of Black excellence across the DC Universe, in stories from a variety of comics’ finest Black artists and writers.
Writer Evan Narcisse and artist Darryl Banks are the creative team helming the story, “Black Paradise” about one of DC’s lesser known, but historically significant characters–Will Everett, the Amazing Man. Originally created in 1983 by Roy Thomas and Jerry Ordway in the pages of “All-Star Squadron”, a comic that depicted the adventures of the Earth-2 heroes during the Golden Age, Amazing Man was supposed to add some diversity to the rather homogenous super team.
Will Everett was an African-American Olympian who had competed in the 1936 Olympic Games in Berlin with Jesse Owens, but whose post-Olympic career devolved into a janitorial profession. During an accident involving the explosion of some equipment he was connected to developed by the criminal mastermind the Ultra-Humanite, Everett quickly developed the ability to mimic whatever properties he touched. If he touched wood, then he became wood, and so forth. In February of 1942, the Squadron helped Everett defeat the bigoted villain in his hometown of Detroit, the Real American in the classic “All-Star Squadron” issues #38-40. Narcisse and Banks’ story takes place several years after that storyline.
BCL:
Why don’t you all tell us what makes the story of Amazing Man so important.
Narcisse:
I wrote it, so I’m gonna let Darryl open it, just so you don’t hear me blathering on. I obviously have answers, because I had my choice of characters when DC approached me and I was like, “No, it’s got to be Will”. But I want to hear why Darryl said “yes”, and why he thinks this is a character worth his time and talent, because you killed it.
Banks:
I was greatly concerned to be honest because Evan, I’d never worked with you before and it was–I knew that anything that Marquis [Draper] would bring to my attention would be worth doing because he’s a high caliber person. I think very highly of him, and my main concern was there were times in the script where I kind of had to shift some things around because I hadn’t worked with you before. I’m like, “is this guy going to want to kill me for some of the changes I’ve made?” But when you had said that you liked what you saw, I was like, “whew” because I was very concerned because I didn’t want to be misinterpreted [with] anything that I may have changed.
But as far as wanting to do the character, Amazing Man was created by Roy Thomas and Jerry Ordway. Jerry Ordway was definitely an influence of mine through this day. He was one of the artists when I was coming up, I would show my samples too and he’d give me some great input. So to be able to work on a character that he designed, I’m like, “Amazing Man! Yes! Then I got the script and I’m thinking this balances a very great black character and it wasn’t beat you over the head, “fight the power”, white people are evil–it wasn’t any of that. It was a good story. Man I hope I did it justice. I just was really concerned about that.
BCL:
Yeah, yes you did.
Banks:
Thank you.
Narcisse:
So you know, like Daryl said, Amazing man is a great character who had a great kind of Legacy pedigree, right? Roy Thomas is obviously great in the comic storytelling field. Jerry Ordway, I love to this day. To me, he’s like one of those people whose art is timeless, and his stuff on All-Star Squadron specifically is so well paired to the content and the time period–drawing that classic World War II era aesthetic. The fashion and everything. I think he was so well suited to it. That kind of mid-century Americana Vibe is something he channeled in his work on “Power of Shazam” which is an amazing book. I read All-Star Squadron as a kid, right? It’s funny to revisit this stuff as an adult because the things I was vibing off of in All-Star Squadron–the painstaking historical kind of texture that Roy Thomas put out there in the book, as a kid, I’m like, “all these are cool superheroes and I’m learning stuff about the history of the medium these characters and I never knew before.” When you’re an adult you’re learning that, “oh yeah, Roy Thomas is a big history buff” and he did the same thing on the “Invaders” at Marvel and this is what he’s doing with All-Star Squadron. So to me, the decision for him to retcon a black character into DC’s golden age in the 1980s was fascinating. I was like, “okay, he’s planting a flag here that hasn’t been here before” That character never left my mind.
The reason I picked Amazing Man–I could have written stories about any of the other black DC characters–but it was that historical moment that fascinated me, you know? World War II and the idea of patriotism and the Greatest Generation. When we talk about patriotism, American patriotism written large and the Greatest Generation, you think of things like “Band of Brothers”, you think of things like the “Greatest Generation”. There’s a documentary, if I remember correctly, that Tom Brokaw either produced or narrated for NBC and like they’re very white right? They’re very, you know, Caucasian. But we served–African-Americans served, and we served under–I won’t say duress–under the shadow of discrimination. The Armed Forces weren’t integrated during World War II, so people were signed up and willingly served or even like who didn’t dodge the draft. There are as patriotic reasons to dodge the draft and choose not to serve a country that doesn’t acknowledge your full rights as a human being, but that’s a whole other tangent. The people who actually did serve, did so under conditions that their non-black counterparts did not have to endure. Obviously other marginalized peoples like Japanese Americans suffered their own indignities and injustices during the war, but the story of African-Americans who served was particularly compelling to me and I thought that Will Everett was a character that we could look at that lens–look at that story through.
I think metaphorically his powers–being able to do–maybe the qualities of things he touches are just ripe for all kinds of fun stuff. Black American patriotism I feel like is something that is really complicated in a way that really hasn’t been explored in the superhero genre. When we think about patriotic superheroes, we think about–on the Marvel side–Captain America, obviously. DC has Commander steel and you could argue Superman is an American symbol. But you don’t have black characters that embody all the complexities of what it means to be a symbol of a society in a nation. I just thought Will was a good example to filter those ideas through. Part of the background here is I have an Amazing Man pitch that I sent to the DC editorial a couple of years ago. It made the rounds–people seem to like it, but for a number of different reasons, it never caught hold. So that got me in the mind of wanting to write Will.
The story I want to tell is still something I hope happens in the future, but for now, let me see if I can get a handle on this guy. It was really fun doing that. I think one of the things that’s great about Will Everett is he’s a
working class dude. He was a sharecropper, his parents were sharecroppers, if I remember correctly. He’s part of the Great Migration which is obviously such an important moment In Black American history, where hundreds of thousands of people leave the South and move up North for a better way of life and he’s part of that and you know the story arc that I referenced here written by Roy Thomas was based on historical facts. The Sojourner Truth homes in Detroit–there was a race riot because people did not want black people moving into those homes. The erasure of Paradise Valley and Black Bottom neighborhood in Detroit so that the highway could be put up. Not only was that one of the most egregious examples of “urban renewal” in America, it was a template that was repeated multiple times throughout the decades. You look at the BQE in New York City and Robert Moses and they dislocated hundreds, thousands of people to make that Highway. People lived on that soil and now they had to move. It was something that I thought really captured the contradictory complexities of what it means to be a black American citizen.
BCL:
This story takes place after the seminal storyline that was done as you mentioned by Roy Thomas and All-Star Squadron issues 38 through 40, which I believe took place around 1942.
Narcisse:
Yeah, I believe so. It might have been earlier than [that]. The Sojourner Truth homes was, I think I want to say ‘40-’41.
BCL:
So how far after does your storyline take place?
Narcisse:
About six or seven years. So the war is over and Mayor Albert Cobo–you might need to fact check that out–but I’m pretty sure I’m getting his name right–was elected I want to say in ‘48-’49 or he came into office of ‘49 and there was this discussion of the “Detroit plan” before he was elected into office. This idea that these neighborhoods were slums and needed to be removed so that Detroit could move into the future was a point of political conversation in Detroit and surrounding municipalities for a couple of years so around that time period I want to say ‘48-’49.
BCL:
Why did you pick that particular time period to do your storyline? He’d been around for a while after that…
Narcisse:
Really, a couple of things. I wanted to think about what the post-war realities were for black veterans. When you think about the GI bill and the way it was able to expand the Horizon of possibilities for veterans coming home from the war, again black veterans were not able to participate to the same degree.
My adolescence was in Long Island. My teenage years. There’s a town –Levittown–which is one of these prototypical American suburbs, straight out of “Leave It to Beaver”. Levittown was built to house GIs coming home from the war and they were able to take advantage of that. Home ownership loans, special programs, welcoming arms–black GIS didn‘t get that. So I just want to use Will as a vector to kind of explore that stuff. Here he is, a superhero who helped Save the World, but did he get a warm welcome? It’s not like he can be out there like Alan Scott, the Golden Age Green Lantern, who owned a radio station. He was already rich before he got the ring. He’s out here superheroing, he can come back and land into a civilian life which is fairly privileged. Will doesn’t have that. When he was a superhero,
they tried to burn him on the cross in a civilian identity. Then he shows up in full regalia and they’re like, “nah, we’re gonna still kick your ass, doesn’t matter what other superheroes got your back.” So I thought all that pre-existing lore around his character just made him ripe to kind of just explore this opportunity.
That’s why I set it at that time. Post-war America–the experiences we know historically–the lukewarm welcome that black GIs got in certain places–I just thought it’d be interesting to imagine how he adapted. Then you fold into the rise of McCarthyism, the House un-American Activities Committee, Executive order 813, which is the Loyalty prayers that Harry Truman made people take in DC because the Red Scare was a huge thing then. People were afraid about the rise of Communism and so this idea of loyalty, performative loyalty, political loyalty, versus actual loyalty of service, loyalty to the ideals of America–I thought that was really interesting. I’m sure you know the “Double V” campaign was a real thing.
BCL:
I was going to ask you about that…
Narcisse:
Yeah, it was basically a public relations campaign to get African-American men to enlist and serve and the idea was if we go out and help the Allies in America win
this war, we will come back to more full enfranchisement in the social and political systems of the United States. That, of course, did not happen.That was also stuff I wanted to explore.
BCL:
The “Double V” campaign referred to “victory at home and victory abroad” and that seemed to go in line with the overall theme of the story. I love the part at the end where Will is talking to the Deacon…
Narcisse:
Deacon Gardner…
BCL:
…and talking about that fact I thought that was really well done and this leads to my next point. You had a lot of subtle references to events and people and actual occurrences in history. Can you review some of the more important ones, or ones that readers might have missed that are important to know?
Narcisse:
I’m glad you asked that question. I’m gonna try not to get emotional here. Dwayne McDuffie is one of my heroes. I’m sure he’s one of all of our heroes. He grew up in Detroit. The person that Will picks up at the Packard plant is named after Leroy McDuffie, who’s Dwayne’s birth father. So I decided just–you know a little nod, a little like that. Deacon Gardner’s last name comes from Edna Mae Gardner, who’s Dwayne’s mother who’s still still alive and still feisty as ever. When I was working on the Milestone documentary, we interviewed her at her home in Orlando so that’s a little nod there. Some of the other stuff are just nods to historical discourse at the time. That line about like urban renewal being negro removal, that was how the people back then talked about it. I think it is an inaccurate lens to view history as if you know black people rolled over and let this stuff happen to them.
BCL:
There’s a common misconception.
Narcisse:
Yeah. There may not have been the kind of political organization and mobilization that we’re more familiar with, but they were at least talking about it. They at least knew what was happening to them. In a speculative space like superhero comics, we could imagine these kinds of everyday heroisms like work stoppages on an assembly line. That’s everyday heroism. So when they’re talking about that, that’s a strategy that was deployed. Maybe not in that exact same situation, but historically, throughout black Freedom struggles. Those are some of the things that I’m repping–at least in terms of real world history.
BCL:
This question is for Darryl. Your art style for this book seemed very reminiscent of the art style of Rick Hoberg and Joe Staton, who are on issues 38 through 40 of All-Star Squadron. Was that intentional?
Banks:
No, but to put me in the company of Legends like that–I will take that compliment. Thank you.
BCL:
Literally, the first couple pages of the story I was–because you were sort of recapping what happened in those issues I took a double take and was like, “Wait a second. Did they reprint pages from the book? It took me literally a second to figure out, “no this is original work that he had done to recap the story.” The art style was just that similar and that’s a compliment…
Banks:
Thank you…
BCL:
…because that was excellent artwork. I think both of them were trying to emulate Jerry Ordway’s style which you’ve mentioned. This is phenomenal art. It’s just a classic art style, so my hat’s off to you. I didn’t know if you were trying to intentionally do that, or you just naturally did that.
Banks:
It’s ironic. I used to show Rick Holberg my samples back in the day as well, just like Jerry, just like Denys Cowan, etc. But no, actually I don’t think I even had reference from those issues. I just had the Amazing Man’s costume design and the villains from the DC Secret Files and that was it. So I thought, “Well, I hope I did it justice.” You know, that’s always my question I ask myself. I’ve got no problem making any adjustments that need to be done.
BCL:
What are some other work that you have done for DC recently, or in general?
Narcisse:
He drew the Kyle Rayner Green Lantern written by Ron Marz way back in the day. I just want my man to get his flowers.
Banks:
Well I appreciate it. I appreciate that. I began with DC doing “Legion of Superheroes Villains” and I used to tell my assistant editor that I’d like to do some Green Lantern stuff–I had some ideas–but I figured I’d have to be at the company for years to prove myself to be able to do a character like [that]. It happened to be at a time the Green Lantern book was in a lot of transition, so they were willing to give me a shot. “We want to create these new characters and they’re going to need a design so are you up to it?” I’m like, “that’s my wheelhouse.” So certain things immediately were accepted and some things were not. Probably right off the bat, was Parallax. They loved my design, but they didn’t like that name. I had to actually write down why I wanted him to be called Parallax, and they’re like, “okay.” Now even when they did the Green Lantern movie that creature was called Parallax I thought some kid from Columbus, Ohio came up with that name for that character
BCL:
So that that was you?
Banks:
Parallax? Yes.
BCL:
Oh, wow.
Banks:
Not that creature, it was when we did the name. It was when Hal Jordan had just kind of snapped.
BCL:
What can we expect from you next time?
Banks:
Well let’s see. Hopefully from DC, if Marquis wants to do more Milestone stuff, or Amazing Man, he knows my number. He’s got my email address. I also got to work with Stephanie Williams on “Nubia & the Amazons.” I did some covers and I worked on a short story
on the “Nubia Coronation Special. If you ever meet Stephanie, she’s a great person.
Narcisse:
She’s hilarious.
BCL:
I would love to meet Stephanie Williams (in case anyone is listening) [speaking directly into the microphone to DC Comics].
Narcisse:
I have a question for Daryl because I didn’t get to ask him this when we were working on the pages. It seems like you’re intentionally invoking JC Leyendecker?
Banks:
Wow! I look at my stuff and I’m like, “are you talking about MY work?” I feel like Leyendecker’s up there, I’m down here. I was like, “wow”. So yeah, keep it coming.
Narcisse:
Were you trying to invoke like a mid-century Americana illustrative aesthetic you know like Rockwell and the whole nine? To me it feels like that, but maybe you were just like, “no this like 100% Darryl Banks…”
Banks:
I’m 58 years old and I draw like it. So I think that’s all that is. But I appreciate the compIiment. I’m gonna write that down somewhere.
Narcisse:
We’re recording it.
BCL:
This is why these conversations are so important.
Banks: [
I try] to make sure that [I’m] doing what the vision–what the writer had in mind as far as the tone and and character design and all that.
BCL:
Evan–I’m trying to restrain my fandom…
Evan:
You know I get you. You’re talking to a former journalist here.
BCL:
You wrote something that I have been screaming to the mountains about. You wrote “Gotham Knights: Gilded City”…
Evan:
Yeah, scripts are all in, but yes, continue…
BCL:
…the creation of Runway. I just wanted to give you your props on that. I’ve been telling people in Black Comic Lords left and right, “you gotta pick this book up Evan Narcisse created.” This character–it’s a dope character. The premise is incredible. Going back to Gotham’s history…
Evan:
You got any guesses about the Runway?
BCL:
You know the question I wanted to ask you. Is he black?
Evan:
No comment, okay. Keep reading.
BCL:
I mean, we’re several issues in, and we haven’t seen his face yet so, uh…
Narcisse:
Your negro instincts are not dulled. That’s all I have to say.
Banks:
“Negro Instincts”? Is that like Spidey sense? [laughs]
BCL:
For Amazing Man and the Runaway, any plans to continue either one, or both of their stories in the future?
Narcisse:
Well like I said, I have a pitch for a bigger Amazing Man story that I would love to tell someday. I do have a day job working at Brassline Entertainment as a senior writer on a game project that we’re making, so finding time to write Comics is a lot harder than it was the last couple of years. But this amazing man pitch that I have, I would love to get the opportunity to make it real with Darryl. I’m just gonna try and manifest that right now. I would love it if Darryl was able to keep going on this journey on Will Everett’s heroic path with me.
As for the Runaway, that’s not up to me. I was lucky enough to have Michael Conrad and Becky Cloonan do a little Easter egg of the Runaway in “Batgirls” a while back and the way the story wraps up in “Gotham Knights”–which let’s be clear–is not the mainline DCU. So there might be some reconfiguration needed, but I would love to tell more stories about the Runaway. If DC would let me, yeah.
BCL:
At the end of each of these anthologies is a summation of the character–like a bio.
Interesting thing at the end of the bio for Will Everett, it says his birth, but doesn’t mention his death. In the comics, we know that it was shown that he died from Cancer and he had two grandsons, Will Everett, III and Markus Clay. Is that a retcon? Because it’s assumed from a Fanboy’s perspective, that when you do a bio like that in a comic like this, that we’re gonna say it’s canon because it’s not coming from Wiki or Fandom, it’s coming [directly] from DC…
Narcisse:
…the Source, yeah.
BCL:
… the source. it’s coming from the source. So was that intentional on your part?
Narcisse:
I didn’t have anything to do with that, but you know I can tell you that that’s probably a DC editorial. Going throughout their publishing history and assembling a bio that reflects various moments and iterations of the characters publishing history. To that point, Jeff Johnson David Goyer are writing Justice Society. They did establish Will’s descendants. So without giving away my pitch I want to examine the legacy of a black heroic World War II superhero in Will Everett. So I would love to use those characters as part of my pitch.
BCL:
His grandsons as well?
Narcisse:
Yes. You know the other thing I want to say, well, you know…
BCL:
…there are not too many black Legacy Family characters like that in comics.
Narcisse:
Why do you think I want to do it?!? I mean, that’s why this story is so significant.
BCL:
I’m glad I had this opportunity to talk to you guys because I can tell you within our community, the Black Comic Lord community, Amazing Man’s a big deal. We talk about him often.
Narcisse:
I mean it’s funny, because I feel like people forgot about him. You know and the other reason I want to use him is that part of his origin story is that he ran at the 1936 Berlin Olympics with Jesse Owens. That’s too juicy. How do you not use that? This man literally served as a symbol of his country, and not just his country, he and Jesse Owens put the lie to the myth of Aryan Supremacy. They’re like, “nah, you who’s got that four minute mile? Ain’t your boys, it’s us”. So again, for that guy to be obscured, forgotten, relegated to a lower tier of the stable of characters feels like an injustice to me and I just wanted to do what I could to kind of bring them up again.
BCL:
Well Michael [Shelling] messaged that the bio actually came from “Who’s Who in DC”, so I’m going to take that as canon and we can hopefully retcon those stories which, quite frankly–I was unhappy with the way they showed that he died in prior comics. If that is a retcon, then it’s still unspecified as to whether this is an Elseworld or main prime.
I want to be cognizant of your time. Thank you all for your time. I appreciate it.
Narcisse:
Paul this was great. I really enjoyed this I’d like to do it again.
“DC Power: A Celebration” is on sale January 31, 2023.
”